In the Chair with Jennifer Suess

Zehra Sheerazi (00:00): Hi, I'm Zehra Sheerazi, and I'm thrilled that you're joining us for our very first episode of a brand-new podcast, In the Chair. This podcast spotlights Canadian business leaders, the lessons they've learned, and the experiences that they've had—really, their story. Today, I had the distinct pleasure of sitting with Jennifer Suess, Senior Vice President and General Counsel of ESG and Corporate Secretary at RioCan REIT.

In our very candid discussion, Jenn shared with us her remarkable career journey, what authentic leadership looks like, real estate after Covid, the risks and opportunities of AI, and how RioCan is using retail real estate space to help transform health care in Canada.

One of the things that stood out to me in our very candid interview was the way Jenn talked about trusting her instincts, trusting them to take on new opportunities that may have seemed daunting initially, and maybe even impossible to others.

But she stayed true to her commitment to “lack the fear of failure”, as she refers to it, and she talked about the many opportunities that it's led to and the important milestones in her career and at RioCan. The conversation was fascinating. I certainly learned a lot and I really hope you enjoy it.

I'm really excited to be sitting here today with Jenn Suess, and Jenn, I'm going to have to look down at my notes for your title because it's long and it's big, and so I'm going to, I'm going to have to read it. Jenn is the Senior Vice President, General Counsel, Head of ESG and Corporate Secretary at RioCan REIT.

Jenn has an incredible number of accomplishments and I can't go through all of them, but I, I'm going to pick on two that really stood out to me. One is Jenn’s involvement with the Hospital for SickKids Foundation, where she's overseeing the creation, construction, and launch of SickKids’ first pediatric virtual walk-in clinic. And Jenn also has a large list of awards that she's won along the way, but most notably and most recently, she was awarded the Order of Ontario. And I think that speaks volumes to the kind of person Jenn is, because this isn't just an award given for the kind of work that she does at her job, but it's also given to somebody who's an exemplary leader in their community, in their province and in our country.

So Jenn, congrats again. That's an incredible accomplishment.

Jennifer Suess (02:23): Thank you.

Zehra Sheerazi (02:24): Over the years, Jenn has built a career that, you know, blends together law, strategy, business leadership, ESG and impact. And she does this all while raising a beautiful family, championing ESG and mentoring people along the way. And so, small story on that, Jenn and I met almost two decades ago now, when Jenn was my first official mentor when I was starting in private practice.

And we'll peel this back a bit further, but I think one of Jenn’s superpowers is her ability to connect with people in a really meaningful way. And not only does she do that, but she somehow miraculously manages to maintain those relationships despite her busy schedule and her life. And I've been the direct beneficiary of that. So, thank you for that, it means more to me than you know. And, you know, I will turn it over to Jenn now, because I don't think there's any better way than hearing about somebody's story than asking them.

So, Jenn, tell us a bit about you and how you got here into this incredible leadership role at RioCan from starting off in private practice.

Jennifer Suess (03:34): Well, first of all, thank you. That was a very generous introduction. And it is a total honour and delight to be sitting here with you. I actually can't believe it's been two decades.

Zehra Sheerazi (03:43): I know when I did the math, I realized how long it had been [laughter].

Jennifer Suess (03:46): It is crazy, but it makes sense because it was before I was a mom, and—

Zehra Sheerazi (03:50): That's right.

Jennifer Suess (03:50): Just remember, those first interactions and immediately we gravitated towards each other as two young women who were just trying to make our way and figure it out. And I love that, and I love that we've been able to stay in touch through all these years, and to watch your success has also been just incredibly inspiring.

Zehra Sheerazi (04:05): Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Jennifer Suess (04:06): To tell you a little bit about my trajectory is challenging because it has taken so many different twists and turns that I would never have expected. Many lawyers, many executives, I think, start off on a path and have a very clear vision of where they're going to go. For me, that was not necessarily the case. I actually came to law by default because I wasn't going to be a doctor, and I still wanted to find a way to make an impact.

And I thought being a lawyer would help to shape the rules and the regulations that impact every person in our country, and was a good place to start. But I knew it wasn't a place to end for me.

Zehra Sheerazi (04:39): Okay.

Jennifer Suess (04:40): I also knew early on that being a traditional partner at a big law firm probably wasn't the way I wanted to go.

As you said early on in your introduction, my connection with people and finding meaning in relationships has always been the thing that has driven me in every endeavour I've undertaken. So, beginning my career in a big firm was important, but also it wasn't going to be the ultimate end goal for me.

Zehra Sheerazi (05:03): Sure.

Jennifer Suess (05:05): I spent many years working in health care. I spent many years as a corporate securities lawyer and was able to see firsthand the ups and downs of the health care industry in Canada and really across the world. And it became very clear to me early on that the infrastructure in this country was not sufficient to sustain us in any meaningful way, particularly as you saw the explosion in demographics over the last ten years in terms of immigration and aging population and all the other challenges that we're facing.

After spending probably about 10 years doing healthcare in a business setting, I was feeling pretty disengaged. I had seen all of the problems with very few solutions. I didn't think being a lawyer in that space was meaningful enough for me anymore. And it was really very serendipitous that I happened to get a call from a head-hunter one day who said that RioCan was looking for their first-ever general counsel, and I thought they'd made a mistake because I had no background in real estate at all.

But one thing about me that I've always trusted is my instincts. And just because I haven't done something before has never made me feel I can't do it. In fact, it's the opposite. If you tell me something is unachievable, it's probably the thing I'm going to take the most seriously. And so for me, when I met Ed Sunshine, who was the founder of RioCan, and he was the CEO at the time, we hit it off right away. But more than that, I was absolutely overwhelmed by his brilliance, his vision and his willingness to put his trust in me. Someone who must have had some demonstrable value to him, although I could not figure out what it was.

Zehra Sheerazi (06:46): We're going to have to interview Ed to get all of his insights.

Jennifer Suess (06:50): Ed is a great interview, you’ll need a little bit more time [laughter]. Tells a lot of amazing stories, and I was absolutely inspired to start working with him, for him and to sit in front of him over these past eight and a half years has been just an absolute treasure trove of inspiration.

So that, I feel, is really where the next phase of my career launched. And it was through my experience starting the department at RioCan and then speaking up and saying, “I want to do more. I want to contribute more. What else can we do?” That has really given me so much opportunity. So, I would say one of the things I've been quite good at is anticipating what becomes important in the economy or in the industry that I work in.

One example of that would have been back in 2019, before people talked about diversity or inclusion in any meaningful way, you could start to see little drippings of it mentioned in Chambers and other publications, where there was starting to be a little bit of a social awareness around the importance of diversity. And for me, as a woman in business and wanting to have a seat at the table, it was very important to me to take advantage of that moment. I had started the Women's Initiative Network at RioCan immediately upon joining.

Zehra Sheerazi (08:04): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (08:04): It was really focused on getting women the opportunity to network and advance in their careers, which often take more non-traditional paths than their male counterparts, especially if they choose to have children or if they have aging parents, or if they have a number of—

Zehra Sheerazi (08:19): Any competing interest, right?

Jennifer Suess (08:20): We know that women spend far more time, on average, taking care of their homes and the people in their lives—

Zehra Sheerazi (08:26): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (08:26): —than men typically do. And so it was very important to me to do that. I was using every opportunity I could to highlight the importance of diversity, really down to selection of counsel. So when I would interview law firms for representation of RioCan, one of the first things I would ask them is, how many parents do you have on your team here?

Not just women, not necessarily just men—

Zehra Sheerazi (08:50): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (08:50): —but how many people have competing interests? Because number one, I think they're going to work harder.

Zehra Sheerazi (08:54): Sure.

Jennifer Suess (08:54): Number two, I think they're more efficient with their time. And number three, I want to reach out and give someone a chance who's probably busting their behind at home in every possible way.

Zehra Sheerazi (09:02): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (09:03): And if that means you can't check your phone between five and seven, which was always the witching hour in my house—

Zehra Sheerazi (09:07): Absolutely. Mine too.

Jennifer Suess (09:09): that's okay. Very little is on fire between five and seven where I need you to be available and I would trust the team to have coverage if that happens. So—

Zehra Sheerazi (09:16): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (09:18): I would say leaning into that sort of authenticity of myself lended me a credibility and an opportunity that I may not otherwise have had. So, I became known for somebody who stood for that. And I am a very principled person. So, I was pretty consistent in how I showed up, hired, retained, trained, mentored, all of those things.

Chambers recognized RioCan in 2019 with a diversity and inclusion award, which was really one of the first of its kind—

Zehra Sheerazi (09:42): That's right.

Jennifer Suess (09:43): Back then. During Covid. Pre- the world kind of blowing up.

Zehra Sheerazi (09:46): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (09:46): And another natural sort of offshoot of that was the whole Environmental Social Governance initiative I now lead, which already existed in some fashion at RioCan. We were always very sustainability-minded in what we were doing, but hadn't necessarily developed a coherent strategy or a communication plan to roll it out to our stakeholders.

So that was something also where I felt I could really make a difference. And then again, trying to find ways to give back to my community, which has always been important.

Zehra Sheerazi (10:15): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (10:15): Led me to get involved with SickKids. And we can talk about that.

Zehra Sheerazi (10:18): I want to talk about that.

Jennifer Suess (10:19): And finding some synergies between that and the whole real estate ESG world has been probably the most meaningful work of my career.

Zehra Sheerazi (10:28): Yeah. And when you talked about, you know, your involvement in the health care space and feeling like there were a number of problems where there weren’t solutions, I feel like you've now found a role where you're doing something different, but you've taken the values from that and the issue spotting that you saw from that and you've found solutions, and you've been part of the solutions there.

So, certainly want to unpack that a bit. But let's first talk about RioCan a little bit. And your group and your, or your leadership sort of role and your mantra there. How big is the group that you lead at RioCan?

Jennifer Suess (10:58): So I oversee three departments: the legal group, which has 12 people, the ESG team has four and insurance, which also has four.

Zehra Sheerazi (11:07): Okay. And this is quite different and, and in terms of the size of group that you're leading, quite different than the previous role that you had.

Jennifer Suess (11:13): Very different.

Zehra Sheerazi (11:14): Yes. And so, tell us a little bit about the transition to a leadership and an executive role, Jenn, because you know, you didn't have that before and you sort of stepped into it and you had to grow it, build it, own it.

And part of it, I think, is you knew what your value systems were and you were willing to put those on the line to develop the people, I assume, around you. But what would you say has been sort of your leadership mantra or your, or your leadership value system that has helped you succeed in this role?

Jennifer Suess (11:51): So, I would say there's a couple of different things. First of all, I never appreciated that leaders must still continue to be curious and ask questions. I assumed, naturally, that leaders had all the answers and that's why they're leading.

Zehra Sheerazi (12:05): Had to know. Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (12:05): It’s not true. I think the best leaders are the ones who can put their hands up and say, “I want to learn more. I want to understand more.” And it's not enough to be an expert in your industry or in your subject matter. You need to actually be an expert on as much information as you can possibly consume. So, I probably read 5 to 10 different legitimate news journals every day. Not necessarily cover to cover, but it's very important—

Zehra Sheerazi (12:32): Different sources and—

Jennifer Suess (12:33): —A hundred percent. Every perspective. You can't just let your algorithm kind of dictate what you intake. So, it's important to see what everybody is saying about all of the important issues of our time. And—

Zehra Sheerazi (12:44): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (12:44): —as for locally, I think it's important to know what happens in your city, what happens in your country, and then what happens in the broader world context.

So being curious, absorbing information, challenging myself every year to develop and to learn more. This year, artificial intelligence happens to be something that I'm diving into. And it's because I think it's a tendency for lawyers and some executives to shy away from it, because it's overwhelming, and there is a sense that it is going to replace many of our functions.

And I don't doubt that that's true. I think that's exactly all the more reason why we need to take ownership of it and learn how to control it and use it in a way that enhances performance.

Zehra Sheerazi (13:21): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (13:21): Otherwise you will be at the mercy of somebody else who decides to tell you how it's going to apply to your area.

The second thing I would say that's really helped me as a leader is being authentic. So, when I show up to work, you get my whole self. If I had a tough day at home, you're going to hear about it at work.

Zehra Sheerazi (13:40): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (13:40): I've got wonderful coworkers who indulge me with my stories and I try to do the same for them. And understanding that every individual is motivated by something different. So, I relish the time I get in my one-on-ones with everybody in my departments. I don't just speak with the people that report to me. I make a point to have check-ins very frequently with everybody in any of the departments, and then also cross-functionally in the broader organization, and then also peer companies to understand what challenges they're facing, so we can anticipate and try to work together to head them off. I think knowing what motivates your team has to be done. It's a lot more work than you expect going in.

Zehra Sheerazi (14:19): For sure.

Jennifer Suess (14:19): Right? But if you want to retain people, and I'm very proud of the retention that we've had, I've had virtually no turnover in our department in the last five years. And that is a testament, I think, to all of us working together to make sure that we understand why we're all there.

Zehra Sheerazi (14:34): Yeah. And so much of motivating people is knowing who they are. Right? And so—and that takes time, and that takes years of trust and, and allowing people to be vulnerable and sharing with you. And I think part of being a leader and why you're good at is, you're the first to do it. Like, I had a hard day, and this is why or this is a tough thing I'm going through, this is a, you know, a challenge in my life right now. And when you do that, the other person feels like, oh, she's willing to share, so maybe I can do the same. And now she's also willing to listen.

Jennifer Suess (15:02): I think that's right. And for me, it was actually not natural at all to open up.

Zehra Sheerazi (15:06): Oh, that shocks me.

Jennifer Suess (15:08): I know [laughter].

Zehra Sheerazi (15:09): I don't know it shocks me. It just feels like that’s—

Jennifer Suess (15:12): I was raised to be a very private person. I was raised to believe there is always a necessary separation between your personal and professional lives. And I walked that line very, very well. Unless I felt a true connection with a coworker where I would bring them into the tent.

Zehra Sheerazi (15:28): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (15:29): But the thing that I always found was I always wanted someone else to let me into their tent.

Zehra Sheerazi (15:32): Yeah. Because that's—how do you ask for that if you're not willing to bring them in?

Jennifer Suess (15:37): Exactly. And so, despite my initial discomfort, I actually found incredible strength from being able to open up and let people know that it's okay to be real.

Zehra Sheerazi (15:48): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (15:48): And I always consider it a privilege when someone shares with me something that's going on and they've still made the effort to get up, get dressed, come to the office. Because we do go to the office every day.

Zehra Sheerazi (15:57): Yes, yes—

Jennifer Suess (15:59): That’s important too—

Zehra Sheerazi (16:00): Yes. In the real estate world it’s a real thing—

Jennifer Suess (16:01): Yeah, I think it's very important.

Zehra Sheerazi (16:03): I agree with you.

Jennifer Suess (16:03): You know, that's how you teach. That's how you learn.

Zehra Sheerazi (16:05): Going back to the meaningful connections, it’s seeing people.

Jennifer Suess (16:08): Yeah.

Zehra Sheerazi (16:08): And, and seeing how they feel with how they look on their face, sometimes. It's easier to hide it on a screen.

Jennifer Suess (16:15): I think the other thing, the last thing I would say about being an effective leader is you need to be able to articulate a vision and a strategy. People need to know you're all moving in the same direction, and why. And so, I've worked with leaders who've been exceptionally good at doing that, and they tend to have the best motivated teams, the most talented performers around them.

And when there is a unique challenge that's facing the organization, you have complete trust in each other because you're all rowing in that same direction.

Zehra Sheerazi (16:41): Sure.

Jennifer Suess (16:42): It’s also really critical.

Zehra Sheerazi (16:43): Zehra Sheerazi

That's amazing. So, let's unpack two things you said. One, you said you read a lot. Tell us, what do you read? Like, what do our listeners also need to listen to to get their, sort of, worldly updates? Podcasts?

Jennifer Suess (16:58): I try—[laughter]

Zehra Sheerazi (17:00): What is it?

Jennifer Suess (17:00): It's a combination of everything, Zehra. I find, you know, the downtime when I am getting ready for work or driving in the car, those are excellent times to catch up on podcasts.

Zehra Sheerazi (17:10): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (17:10): For me, those tend to be a little bit deeper dives because—

Zehra Sheerazi (17:12): I'm sure.

Jennifer Suess (17:13): —mental capacity to actually think about what's being said.

Zehra Sheerazi (17:16): There's not as much noise around you.

Jennifer Suess (17:17): Exactly.

Zehra Sheerazi (17:18): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (17:28): It's like some people say they do their best thinking in the shower, I do my best thinking driving to work [laughter]. And I would say other than that, you know, there's certainly your traditional news sources, but—

Zehra Sheerazi (17:28): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (17:29): —it's a, I make a point to have myself check those sources probably two or three times a day. I'm not a fan of getting notifications necessarily, because you can get—

Zehra Sheerazi (17:38): I agree.

Jennifer Suess (17:38): —inundated, bombarded, depending on what you're trying to keep up with. I used to have all the Google alerts and everything like on my phone.

Zehra Sheerazi (17:44): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (17:44): I couldn't even see my phone but for all of the notifications and share screen—

Zehra Sheerazi (17:48): Sure.

Jennifer Suess (17:49): —stuff that was popping up. So, checking into news sources, listening to podcasts.

I also am a huge murder mystery fan, which I know probably is not what you're expecting, but I find, I've been a big student of human behaviour. I like to understand motivation.

Zehra Sheerazi (18:02): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (18:02): So, whether it's real true crime novels or actual murder mysteries that are just fiction, they're my indulgence. So, if I'm on vacation, you're going to find me reading.

Zehra Sheerazi (18:12): So true crime podcasts are probably—

Jennifer Suess (18:15): Huge.

Zehra Sheerazi (18:15): My go-to on my, on my podcast list.

Jennifer Suess (18:18): Right. I think my close friends think something seriously wrong [laughter].

Zehra Sheerazi (18:22): I think it's interesting though, right? Like, going back to understanding human behavior, motivation and, um, small town stories, often right here in your own backyard.

Jennifer Suess (18:31): Exactly.

Zehra Sheerazi (18:33): Yeah. So I'm listening to the Serial podcast again, the first-ever series that they did, and it’s—

Jennifer Suess (18:40): Amazing?

Zehra Sheerazi (18:40): It’s amazing.

Jennifer Suess (18:40): It’s amazing. And what you realize is anyone is capable of anything given the right circumstances.

Zehra Sheerazi (18:46): I hear you, I hear you. Okay, second piece: I want to talk about AI. You mentioned that. So, what are you doing at RioCan in terms of AI? How are you sort of testing it, bringing it out? How are you using it in the real estate industry?

Jennifer Suess (19:01): Such a good, important question. And I would like to say that I have the perfect answer for you. The truth is, it is very much a work in progress. Part of the challenge of operating in today's environment is the sheer volume of data that is available.

Zehra Sheerazi (19:13): I know. Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (19:14): And so, what we're—

Zehra Sheerazi (19:15): Process it, how to use it, leverage it.

Jennifer Suess (19:18): Exactly. So, we are really focused on ensuring the veracity, the accuracy of the data we collect.

Zehra Sheerazi (19:23): Yep.

Jennifer Suess (19:23): We are focused on understanding how we can best optimize the use of that data. Certainly, there are efficiencies that can be recognized in the day-to-day operations of the organization. The bigger question, I think, is also on a property level. RioCan owns and operates over 200 shopping centers across Canada.

There are very meaningful ways that AI can probably enhance the experience of our tenants, of our consumers, of all the people that we interact with. And so, it is going to take a little bit of time to really come up with a cohesive strategy. What I'm doing right now is canvassing the organization to see how people are using it.

And a great example is, I was recently approached by a law firm that wanted to do some work for us, and so we arranged a meeting by Zoom, and after I logged in, I noticed the blinking light on the screen, and I asked if they were recording the meeting. Because they hadn't said that initially.

Zehra Sheerazi (20:15): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (20:15): And they said, “Well, yes, that's how we know what our takeaways are, that's how we make our to do list.” And I said, “Well, I'm not really comfortable with you recording this meeting because you didn't get consent. By the way, I'm not going to hire you.”

Zehra Sheerazi (20:15): Yeah.

Zehra Sheerazi (20:26): It was not Torys [laughter].

Jennifer Suess (20:27): It was not Torys [laughter]. One hundred percent not Torys. And, and they were young and so I spent a few minutes explaining to them the importance of discretion and confidentiality and the sheer fact that this particular meeting may not be discoverable in the future, but many meetings that are being recorded offhandedly absolutely will be discoverable. So, if you think you're having a confidential conversation about an employee situation or a strategic matter, and you're simply recording it because it's, it's laziness, to be honest, it's easier than writing down the things you need to do, you lose a lot of the ability to maintain privilege. And I think people don't understand the difference between a confidential network or a secure network versus legal privilege. They're not the same thing. So, I'm working very hard with your organization to understand how people are using it, and then we can develop appropriate frameworks and governance around that, while still ensuring we're leveraging it for all of the things that it should be used for. And that'll probably take 6 to 12 months, to be realistic.

Zehra Sheerazi (21:29): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (21:29): And you're trying to keep pace with the developments that happen every single day. The machine gets smarter and smarter, so it's definitely a, a daunting task, but there is no alternative. You have to do it, or you'll never catch up.

Zehra Sheerazi (21:41): I think that's right, right? Like you don't, it may take some jobs away or make mundane tasks a little bit easier to get through, but the only way to leverage it in a way that's meaningful is to learn how to use it.

Jennifer Suess (21:52): Right.

Zehra Sheerazi (21:52): And what you can use it for to be impactful, to make your job easier, to get rid of the things that you don't necessarily want to do, or—

Jennifer Suess (21:58): Absolutely and you said it best. Legal matters are all about trust. You have to trust the person that's working for you. A machine can't replace that. And real estate is based so heavily on relationships.

Zehra Sheerazi (21:58): Absolutely.

Jennifer Suess (22:12): I never appreciated the extent to which this industry is dependent on personal relationships and the dynamic of trust in each other to get deals done before I was part of it.

So, I don't worry particularly about AI taking over, but I do think you need to be mindful of trying to learn it. And for those of us who've been in practice more than a few years, some of us are not super eager to jump into new technology all the time—

Zehra Sheerazi (22:37): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (22:37): —but you have to.

Zehra Sheerazi (22:38): You have to. You have to learn. Okay, so switching gears, I think it's really interesting, RioCan recently put a virtual health care clinic into one of its, into one of its mall retail spaces. And I think it's really cool that you guys are looking at retail, as in, you know, using the retail platform to deliver, sort of, alternative retail uses.

Let's talk a bit about that, Jenn, because it solves some of the issues that you were talking about, or in terms of immigration, overpopulation, trying to sort of access health care. And you've taken your health care roots, you're probably applying some of that here. And it's making a real impact on people's lives. When you look at the number of people that have gone through that clinic, I was shocked by it.

Jennifer Suess (23:27): Thank you. It is probably the most meaningful initiative I was ever involved with. Not necessarily because the number of patients is going to dramatically reduce the patients that need to access care at the downtown hospitals, which of course is one of our hopes in the future.

Zehra Sheerazi (23:44): Yep.

Jennifer Suess (23:44): But you start to understand some of the layers of complexity involved in delivering health care across our country.

So I focused on a very small sample size. I wanted to focus on a population that is historically underserved in the medical community. They have a harder time accessing doctors, they have a harder time trusting doctors, and they typically wait until a crisis has happened and then need to access the emergency room downtown, with all the congestion and the waiting. Being on the board of the hospital for SickKids Foundation, I saw firsthand during Covid and since Covid, the unbelievable waiting times in the emergency rooms, which often stretch beyond 24 hours.

And the truth is, not every family needs to be seen in a hospital setting. They just don't know where to go.

Zehra Sheerazi (24:29): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (24:30): And so taking some of the access issues out of the hospital and placing them within the community so that community members can access them in shopping centers, where you also have drugstores, grocery stores, all of the other things that you probably need to pick up items at on your way home when you have a sick child just made sense, and it's made sense to me for a long time.

Coming out of Covid, you also saw in the real estate space tons of vacant office space. Now some of that is going away, as there is a return-to-work mandate more and more frequently being implemented. But there is still a lot of unused office space and to some extent, retail. Although retail is definitely harder to find these days.

Jennifer Suess (25:07): And so, the idea came to me why can't we take some of the non-acute urgent need out of the ER and put it into spaces where patients can access it more easily? And the nice thing about this initiative is the response that it has led to from all of the other hospitals across the province, who now see that because it's been done once, it can be replicated, it can be effective. And so, the idea is to attract patients who probably don't have a primary care doctor.

Zehra Sheerazi (25:37): Yep.

Jennifer Suess (25:37): And we know millions of Ontarians do not have a primary care doctor. Drive up foot traffic at the shopping centers, get people to go where we have the space. And now with the delivery of virtual care being allowed and actually encouraged, because it's more efficient, it's really a nice way of being able to offer a critical need to people without the inconvenience of missing so much work and school and having to trek downtown, or not know where to turn, or God forbid, deal with a sick person who just continues to get worse because they don't have the care. The SickKids Clinic at Lawrence Allen Shopping Centre is placed perfectly on one of the poorest digital postal codes in the province.

And so, what that means is, these are patient families that don't necessarily have strong Wi-Fi. Many of them live in high rises, so they can't access typical online platforms from their homes. We know that they may not even have proper functioning cell phones with 5G or the latest technology.

Zehra Sheerazi (26:33): Wow.

Jennifer Suess (26:33): And so, you make it easy for people to come from schools and home and business to stop by on their way, get an opinion from the exact same doctor that would be on call in the emergency room downtown at SickKids.

Zehra Sheerazi (26:44): This is a SickKids doctor.

Jennifer Suess (26:45): This is a SickKids doctor.

Zehra Sheerazi (26:47): Wow.

Jennifer Suess (26:47): Vetted and trained and fully qualified. And they can email prescriptions. They can send you X-ray or blood requisitions to your phone. And if it is a true emergency, we developed a groundbreaking partnership with Humber Valley Hospital just down the road. And they will triage the children that need to go there. The reality is very, very few actually needed to be seen in person, at least for the ones that have come in so far.

And of course, if you—

Zehra Sheerazi (27:10): It goes back to your point of taking them out of where they would have originally been sitting. In an ER at a hospital.

Jennifer Suess (27:16): Exactly, exactly. So I'm very hopeful that this will make a difference, not just today, not just for the kids who are lucky enough to be able to access the pilot program, but for the ones and the adults who will go on to benefit from more creative thinking, more innovation.

Zehra Sheerazi (27:30): Sure.

Jennifer Suess (27:30): And it truly is a call to our government to say public-private partnerships between companies like RioCan and publicly-funded hospital institutions must become normalized.

People like to say they don't want to see a two-tier system. And the reality is we already have a two-tiered system. We all know people who are able to access front of the line privileges because of connections or donations or what have you. This is a way of equalizing the playing field just a little bit. There are no user fees.

Jennifer Suess (28:00): OHIP covers the visit.

Zehra Sheerazi (28:01): Okay.

Jennifer Suess (28:02): And the only real cost involved is the build-out of the space, which is fairly economical because it's not surgical space. Although I do think we should have a dedicated surgical centre for ambulatory surgical procedures, also in an office tower. We can talk about that.

Zehra Sheerazi (28:16): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (28:17): And so, you can privately fundraise many of the donations that are needed to build out the space. And then the ongoing maintenance is a really minimal cost. You're really just looking at paying rent, which also generates value for the RioCan stakeholders. And keeping the lights on. And the government funds the user fees. So it's really a win-win.

Zehra Sheerazi (28:34): It’s incredible. Is the idea, Jenn, this is a pilot project and now the hope is that we will see more of these in other shopping centers?

Jennifer Suess (28:42): That is the hope.

Zehra Sheerazi (28:43): For—not just kid-specific.

Jennifer Suess (28:45): Yes.

Zehra Sheerazi (28:46): Okay.

Jennifer Suess (28:46): We've already been working with another hospital, actually, that's been doing some information gathering near around the Yonge and Sheppard area to understand the demographics there. Totally focused on adults, totally focused on a population that has more immigration in the community than you typically see, often struggles with English. We have translation services that are in the virtual care clinic for SickKids.

We're going to offer the same translation services at Yonge and Sheppard, and it just enables people to take a little bit more control of their own health care and to prevent real disasters that ultimately necessitate further intervention down the road and are more expensive. So, let's try to go back to a proactive preventative health care model, which you and I benefited from growing up.

Zehra Sheerazi (29:29): Yes.

Jennifer Suess (29:30): It doesn't really exist anymore.

Zehra Sheerazi (29:31): I know, I know, the virtual health care has been incredibly helpful, especially through times like Covid where you couldn't go in and sit in congested waiting rooms.

Jennifer Suess (29:41): Absolutely.

Zehra Sheerazi (29:42): And health care was so pressed.

Okay. So, switching gears a little bit again, Jenn, we talked a little bit initially when you were talking about your journey, you talked about, the fact that it hasn't been linear, that there have been, sort of, pivots along the way. If you look back at the last 10, 15 years, can you think about a couple of challenges or, moments that were hard?

And I thought it was really interesting when you said, you know, you hadn't been in real estate before and someone who hadn't been exposed to real estate may have thought like, “oh, I can't do this job. I don't know anything about it,” but you were, you know, ready to dive in headfirst. And that something you're good at, is when you don't know something, you're happy to go and learn and challenge yourself and get good at it quickly.

You know, that's probably one of the things that makes leaders successful, is that they have confidence that even though they don't know something, they can learn it or get smart at it or build a team around them that can help them get smart at it. Can you think about a couple of challenges that you've had in the last, you know, 10, 15 years that have been ones that you've been able to navigate, and, and how have you navigated that?

Jennifer Suess (30:47): That's such an important question. I think... I think, first of all, my attitude of jumping in headfirst to things comes from generations of people that I'm fortunate enough to have descended from that endured unbelievable hardship. And so, although I didn't know most of my grandparents because they passed away before I was born, I know the stories and I know the perseverance, and I know the importance of starting again and losing everything.

And so the—people talk about intergenerational trauma. I like to think of it as intergenerational strength. I think that there's a resilience and an attitude of, “so what?” that comes along with “what if I fail?” Well, I think not trying is worse than failing. And so that has always motivated me.

Zehra Sheerazi (31:45): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (31:45): And I also have realized over the course of my career, often being the only woman in the room that women don't put their hands up to try things until they are 100% confident that they can execute perfectly.

Whereas men will often volunteer for things they've never tried because they're encouraged to do so by their peers. And they don't fear failure the same way we do. And so, I thought, I'm going to act like I don't fear failure. I'm going to be fearless. And that doesn't mean inside I wasn't in turmoil much of the time, because believe you me I have been.

But I knew there was only one way up, and that is, you got to get through it. You got to try. So, when I think about unique challenges that have faced me, I would say certainly professionally, there have been a number. Covid, of course: at the time we had over 4,000 tenants, most of whom could not pay their rent because they couldn't keep their lights on. And it reframed the way I think RioCan executives thought of the business: needing to prioritize essential services and understanding how to curate and communicate that curation of tenant mix to our shareholders. So, we have an incredibly resilient, strong and stable tenant mix—

Zehra Sheerazi (32:57): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (32:57): —that has come about because of years of deliberate negotiation and selection. And so, we have almost 99% occupancy in our portfolio.

Zehra Sheerazi (33:06): Wow.

Jennifer Suess (33:06): That is no accident.

And the quality of the tenants, the quality of the income that that generates is absolutely reliable and relied upon by pensioners, pension funds, you know, all the large institutions in our country and beyond. And so, I'm extremely proud of having been part of the team that was able to not just survive but figure out how to thrive.

And the thing about RioCan is that it's constantly reinventing itself. So, we—when I joined, were in the process of creating Canada's largest mixed-use asset, which is called The Well. And it's just near us here at King and Spadina.

Zehra Sheerazi (33:44): That’s right. Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (33:45): I've been able to see that project come to completion. We've seen it become stabilized. We've also gotten into, and are now getting out of, the residential business. That's been an incredibly interesting path where we've learned how to build, stabilize and then sell at a profit these beautiful, highly amenitized buildings right at the time where the market has shifted.

And now we are going back to a more simplified retail-based portfolios. I think that combination of circumstance and just having to constantly be nimble and agile in your thinking and in your approach is always inspiring. No two days are ever alike. I happen to thrive in that kind of environment. Not everybody maybe does, but I think we have an exceptional group of people who are all motivated by those types of things.

So—and your question is so important because when you talk about getting through challenges that no one has anticipated, there's been no end in Canada in the last five years, from Covid to tariffs to interest rate volatility and beyond, you need to be able to adapt your skills to whatever the situation calls for. And I think those are the tools we try to teach our kids, because you can't predict what tomorrow is going to bring.

You can only try to show up as best as you can.

Zehra Sheerazi (34:59): And have the mindset that, you know, you've been fortunate to have cultivated through, you know that the multi-generations of people that have come before you, that you've learned from through work, because a lot of that is, is showing up with the right attitude. And, and I think it's really interesting. You said, you know, “I put my hand up to ask for things.”

And I think, like you said, you know, a lot of women don't do that. We wait to be given opportunities. But putting your hand up and asking for something, I guess what's the worst somebody would say is no, but I guess you miss all those opportunities if you don't even ask.

Jennifer Suess (35:36): Yeah, and the confidence you build in yourself by just articulating the question and understanding your place, which is also really important because I don't necessarily get everything I ask for, but what I do—

Zehra Sheerazi (36:48): You get more than if you hadn't asked.

Jennifer Suess (36:49): Certainly get more than if I hadn’t asked, and I also get perspective. I know what I need to do to get to the place I want to be, and I think there's a lot of value in that. And I also think simply approaching every opportunity with gratitude.

I am so grateful that I happen to have been born at this time and have the opportunities I have today, because it was really through no—nothing I did caused me to be born when I was, instead of the ‘50s or the ‘20s. And to know what my grandparents, great-grandparents and ancestors went through so that I could be here. So I have a bad day at the office, you know what? It's okay. I'm going to survive.

Zehra Sheerazi (36:28): Put it in perspective.

Jennifer Suess (36:30): Exactly.

Zehra Sheerazi (36:30): Yeah. We've had such a good discussion, Jenn. There's a few things I still want to ask you before we wrap up, though. And I want to zoom back a bit and look at, sort of, your journey and ask you some things that our listeners can hopefully take away and implement in their lives, as well. So, if you look back at your younger self and you could give yourself a piece of advice. I mean, we were just chatting, your daughter just went off to university and she's at that stage in her life where she's going to try to figure out what she wants to do.

And if you looked at yourself back then, is there any advice you would give yourself that you wish you had implemented earlier?

Jennifer Suess (37:10): I would say, don't catastrophize. Don't think that everything that doesn't go the way you planned is going to have a huge and untenable impact on your future, because it won't. Most things you make much bigger in your own head than anyone else around you has. I would say try to be more fearless because even though I've learned over the course of my career to try things, I wish I'd done that earlier.

Zehra Sheerazi (37:35): I love your first piece of advice because my, my boys play sports, and one of their coaches said to them the other day, he said, you know, no one win is going to continue and no one loss is going to continue. Like you just have to remember, enjoy the wins while you have them and the losses too.

But it'll go up and down constantly. And so, learning that no one sort of big accomplishment is the end of you and no one loss defines you either, allows you to keep going.

Jennifer Suess (38:05): Absolutely. So to be present in the moment—

Zehra Sheerazi (38:06): Yeah.

Jennifer Suess (38:06): —is also something I think lawyers maybe struggle with a little bit because we are risk averse by nature.

Zehra Sheerazi (38:11): Absolutely.

Jennifer Suess (38:11): We’re planners. Right? So I think being able to just show up and enjoy the moment without worrying about what comes next is also really important. And I would say one other thing, which is you want to try to leave every organization better off because you've been there.

So, I've taken that very seriously. Whenever I've joined a new initiative or done something, I only do it because it's important to me, because I think I can make a positive impact on the people and the place around me. If you don't really feel that—and this is the same advice I give to my kids—don't do it.

Zehra Sheerazi (38:43): Yeah. Yep.

Jennifer Suess (38:43): Engage in the things that are meaningful because that's what's going to keep you going. And that's where you're really going to start to see the benefits of your efforts.

Zehra Sheerazi (38:51): And I think that's what comes back to your core principles and your values, right? And knowing who you are and what you stand for and what you believe in, because all of this has to align with that.

Jennifer Suess (39:00): 100%. I think we live in such a divided time. I've never seen such factions of division within our society in every respect. And so, one thing that gives me strength and hope for the future is being able to talk to people like you and find common ground that unify everybody as human beings.

We all want the same basic things. And so, if we can focus on some of the things that unite us as Canadians, as women, as executives, as whatever the thing is, I think that's where you can also really start to build momentum for the next generation and opportunity, and stop worrying about all of the little day-to-day hurts that we all have to endure.

Jennifer Suess (39:43): And I guess my background has always taught me not to play the victim, but to play somebody who can make things better. And that's the mindset that I think we all need to have.

Zehra Sheerazi (39:52): I think we wrap with that, Jenn, because I think it was so incredible the last few sentences that you just gave us, to, to reflect on, to learn from. The last 30 minutes has been incredible for me. To—you're so wise and you're so real and you're so authentic. So, I thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability, and for your friendship.

Zehra Sheerazi (40:18): So, thank you for sitting with us today and for allowing us a peek into your life.

Jennifer Suess (40:22): Well, thank you so much, Zehra. It is such a pleasure to be here, and I'm just delighted we were able to do this and spend some time together. I won't forget this.

Zehra Sheerazi (40:31): Neither will I. Thanks, Jenn.

Jennifer Suess (40:33): Thank you.